After weeks of trying to set up and connect your product to other audio gear I am getting nowhere. Nothing seems to work properly as I try various connection configurations. Attached is the latest version of how I have tried tackling all of these interconnects with the equipment I have. I need your help! Can you please look at the attached configuration and make suggestions about how to better connect your equipment to these other audio devices? If there are alternatives and/or suggestions for a better way, please advise.
It looks like you are interrupting the signal flow in the Power Station by using the Line In. The attenuated signal will not pass through to the effects loops if there is something plugged into the Line In on the Power Station. I’ll place the signal flow/block diagram in this post below.
It looks like you are trying to have a Power Station in the attenuator loop but don’t continue to use it as that. So, my suggestion is to use the Power Station in the attenuator loop how it is in the manual for the KHE, which is placed the same way in the Power Station manual. That would be in the attenuator loop, with your pedalboard in the Power Station’s effects loop. Nothing in the Line In while you are doing that.
If you want to use the Line In, get the Cyclops. It can help in that scenario to switch between the “preamp” signal and the signal from the KHE’s amp switching section.
The diagram and the way you are trying to use the equipment almost reads like a perpetual energy device. You’re trying to use it as an attenuator for everything, use it as a power amp for the Mesa, and use it as the host for the effects for the entire rig. There are no free rides with professional gear. There isn’t a device on the market that does that and you can’t brute force it to do so. The issue here isn’t the Power Station. You’re going to have to use the examples in manuals to really get this working unless you want to take it to a professional system designer to build it.
I hope we can help you get the most out of your Fryette gear and would be happy to answer any further questions.
You indicate that no device on the market with do these 3 use cases together, using the Power Station to:
An attenuator for everything
Power amp for the MESA
Host for the effects for the entire rig
Are you meaning to say that the PS is capable of doing all of the above, but just not with all three at once? I could live without #2 above, but can the PS do both #1 and #3 together? I think I recall in your manual that #1 is possible. And I believe that I have already achieved #3 with the connections in the diagram I sent you. I guess my question is which groups of only two of the 3 uses above would work with the Power Station?
Finally, I will look at both the PS and KHE manuals with respect to your recommendation below and try to better understand it. I will also need to look at the Cyclops as well.
The Power Station is totally capable of all three of those, but you are correct, it cannot do all three at once… by itself… With the addition of the Fryette Cyclops, you can add the preamp and it will become another selection. You would just be expanding what you can currently have.
Sticking to the manuals is the best option with what you currently have. Run it exactly as they do in both manuals and you’ll be set. Place the Power Station in the KHE attenuator loop, place the effects in the Power Station loop. Let me know if you have anymore questions.
I forgot to answer part of your question. With the Power Station in the KHE’s Attenuator Insert, (meaning: KHE S-Line Send to Power Station AMP In and then From the Power Station Speaker Out to the KHE S-Line Return. See Diagram Below) you are just fine. The Power Station will act as a global attenuator and a global effects loop.
The way you currently have it set up, you are creating a feedback loop that doesn’t really do anything. The Power Station has to use the KHE’s S-Line send and return as shown in the diagram above. Right now I’m guessing the “attenuator insert” is still in parallel mode. While you are sending the other amplifiers into the “amp in” of the Power Station, the Power Station cannot be used on itself while sending the signal back through the attenuator into the mentioned feedback loop.
The Next Diagram is from the Fryette ZMACS but it shows the exact way you need to run the Power Station in a amp/cab selector.
The Power Station is in the Attenuator Loop of the ZMACS in the image. You would be doing the same on the KHE, it’s just called an “attenuator insert” with them.
Thanks for your note below. I have researched the Cyclops device. Given that I am trying to integrate the following:
PS-100
KHE ACS 4x4FX
4 amplifier heads (preamp/power amp sections)
1 MESA Recording Preamp
A pedal board with both dry and wet signals
A Two Notes Captor X Attenuator
A THD Hot Plate Attenuator
Am I correctly interpreting your note below to mean the general direction to take is:
KHE: Use this unit to connect 4 amplifier heads and any speaker cabinets and/or Two Notes Captor X and THD Hot Plate attenuators.
KHE: No need to connect the KHE master FX loop or individual amp head FX loops
KHE: Use the attenuator loop (S-Line Send/Receive) to connect to the PS-100 Power Station
PS-100: Use to have DRY signals from all four amps passing through the PS-100 for either volume enhancement or attenuation
PS-100: Use this unit to Receive/Return signal from the KHE unit and as a master Wet FX loop coming from the pedalboard
PS-100: Use this unit to receive signals from any of 4 amplifier heads connected to the KHE device (Active amp only)
PS-100: Don’t use the Line In junction as doing so will interrupt the power amp signals flowing through this device including the FX loop
With this configuration the PS-100 Line In is NOT invoked. If I did want to invoke it, I would need to re-patch the PS-100 connections to be able to capture the MESA signals via the PS-100 Line In and send that resulting power amp signal to the KHE device.
IF I also used the Cyclops device and connected it to one of the integrated amps AND to the MESA preamp, this unit would allow me to switch between either the MESA Preamp signal or the integrated amp’s signal, both of which would be passed through the PS-100 for volume control and switch coloring.
Please advise if I am on the correct conceptual track here. And please clarify where something doesn’t seem to make sense.
is correct but let me add, the PS-100 is the attenuator, master effects loop for all heads, possible preamp host with the use of a cyclops, and yes, volume enhancement.
is correct
is correct
correct unless using the Cyclops
correct unless using the Cyclops
I’ll explain this one below and with a simple diagram.
The Guitar/pedalboard is connected to the Cyclops. The Cyclops is connected to the input of the KHE ACS, and the Mesa Preamp’s input and output. The Cyclops is then connected to the PS-100 via the Line In and Line Out. The Cyclops rectifies the Line In issue by allowing you to use all of the amplifiers through the KHE and the Preamp and then switch between them.
I apologize if there’s any small mistakes, I made that diagram in like 2 minutes. Please let me know if that helps visualize it or if you have any more questions. I know you weren’t really running cabinets like this but sometimes it’s easier to see. Also, you could just use one cabinet output for your Captor X, and the rest for other cabinets. With the PS-100, you won’t really need the THD in there anymore. Your entire rig is basically running through the PS-100.
This post, and especially the connection figure you included was tremendously helpful. A lot was clarified for me.
Three items still nag me:
If I add the Cyclops to the configuration, and I switch to the MESA preamp, where does the signal then go and from what device it is getting a power amp treatment? Or, does it just pass it through so that you hear only the sound of the preamp treatment?
Your initially indicated that the PS-100 cannot do 3 functions at once (Attenuate everything, Power amp for MESA, master FX loop for all heads). If I insert the Cyclops, is it then able to do all of these at one time? Is that why you suggested this product?
Will the MESA signal also receive a pairing with the Post-FX (Wet) signal, or is it output with only a Dry signal?
Sorry about that. I hope this answers those questions.
Three items still nag me:
If I add the Cyclops to the configuration, and I switch to the MESA preamp, where does the signal then go and from what device it is getting a power amp treatment? Or, does it just pass it through so that you hear only the sound of the preamp treatment?
The signal will bypass the amplifiers in the ACS and use the PS-100 as the power amp section for the preamp. You can prepare for this by using one of the two channels in the PS-100 for the preamp signal if you would like it to have its own controls.
Your initially indicated that the PS-100 cannot do 3 functions at once (Attenuate everything, Power amp for MESA, master FX loop for all heads). If I insert the Cyclops, is it then able to do all of these at one time?
Is that why you suggested this product?
Yes, the Cyclops opens up the full use of all of the functions. Not all at once but it does become footswitchable so you can easily go between all of the functions you wanted the units to do.
Yes, that is precisely why I suggested the product.
Will the MESA signal also receive a pairing with the Post-FX (Wet) signal, or is it output with only a Dry signal?
*The PS-100 becomes the Effects loop for all of the products. Whatever you put into the effects loop will affect any amplifier or preamp you choose within the KHE or the Cyclops. With the Cyclops, PS-100, and the ACS, you’ll then have the ability to run all of your normal pre-effects (wah, overdrive, phaser, etc) before all the amps and the preamp and run your post-effects (delay, reverb, etc) in the loop of the PS-100. *
All of the amps share that loop as long as the PS-100 is operating.
Hi Terry, the diagram you sent to me was the best thing to begin to make sense. I have revamped my initial diagram and incorporated what I believe yours was trying to convey.
Before I begin to build this, I was hoping you could take another look and verify that I now have the correct understanding of all the connections I need for integrating your products into my design. I am attaching my diagram image below. Let me know if I need to send it to you in a better form.
The only thing I see off the bat was the PS100 Line Out should be the instrument/unbalanced Line Out. Wasn’t sure if you did that so it made it easier to see or if you were looking to use that particular output. That was it. Great job!
It was my read of the manual that either one or the other (or both) Line Out junctions on the PS-100 could be used and that the Live Level knob controls both. If I used the Line Out (Balanced) XLR junction I thought that the cable would be a balanced cable. But if I used the other Line Out junction that it would be an unbalanced instrument cable as you suggest.
Please advise if my understanding is not correct
Advise if these Line Out junctions serve different purposes instead of either/or and what would be the use cases that favors one over the other
Are there pros/cons to using each type of cable?
Please verify if the PS-100 FX loop is engaged before or after the power amp is applied
This will all be helpful to me because these questions came up as I was documenting signal flows to accompany this diagram. I seriously doubt that if I don’t have this, I will never be able to remember or re-create this again without these.
Your help is most appreciated.
PS: I have ordered a Cyclops device based on your suggestion!
So the balanced line out is great for feeding a post attenuation isolated dry signal to things like an interface or an IR loader. The unbalanced line out is what you want to use for the Cyclops. I really don’t like to mix connectors personally unless I absolutely have to (i.e. unbalanced instrument cable to an Eventide H3000 so it works with a guitar based system). It’s much easier to use the unbalanced instrument cable that the Cyclops was designed for rather than to purchase an adapter, get an interconnect cable with different ends, or make a cable when the unit doesn’t call for that at all. Keep it simple, just use an instrument cable. There’s no reason to complicate an already complex system. This also gives you the opportunity to have that XLR jack available for other things.
Simplified Block Diagram:
Amp in → Attenuator → Line Out → Line In → Effects Loop Send → Effects Loop Return → Power Amplifier → Speaker out
